Jim Clarke & Mike Pavich Interview (Punahou Bulletin)

Investing in the Joy of Lifelong Learning

The Punahou-South Africa Math Project 2001

In July 2001, a team of four high school mathematics teachers, including 
two from Punahou School, traveled to South Africa to conduct two workshops 
for 96 grade 11 and 12 math teachers. Led by Punahou teacher Yunus Peer, 
formerly of Port Shepstone, the South Africa team included Jim Clarke and 
Mike Pavich of Punahou; Mike Vogel, former Punahou teacher; and Steve Hanks 
of Honokaa High School on the Big Island. What transpired was an invaluable 
cooperative learning effort between the teachers, an outstanding example of 
outreach from one community to another, and a life-changing experience for 
each participant. The Bulletin talked to Jim and Mike about their 
experiences. Here’s what they had to say:

What were your expectations or goals for the trip?

Jim: Truthfully, I wasn’t exactly sure what to expect.  I was aware, 
however that since 1994, there’s been a spirit of a rebirth in South 
Africa, of a nation emerging from a tragic past of Apartheid. The education 
of the vast majority of South Africa’s people was severely crippled by the 
policies of the day.  The South Africans believe that education is the key 
to success in “lifting up” their country. I agree, and decided that it 
would be wonderful to offer their teachers what I could as an experienced 
mathematics teacher.

Mike:  When you’ve been teaching over 20 years, you still find it exciting 
to see what and how other people do things. My goal was to share my 
knowledge with the South African teachers as well and to learn what I could 
from them.

Where in South Africa were your workshops held? 
Mike: We held two one-week workshops: the first at the Vaal Triangle 
Technikon in Vereeniging, Gauteng, and the other at the Total Education 
Development Centre in Port Shepstone, KwaZulu-Natal.

How many South African teachers attended the workshops? What subjects did 
each of you teach?

Jim: Two groups in two provinces: 60 in Gauteng and 36 in KwaZulu. I taught 
calculus, quadratics and absolute value. These are some of the topics on a 
matric exam that the students must take at the end of the year. Mike Pavich 
taught exponential functions and series of sequences, Steve Hanks geometry 
and Mike Vogel trigonometry.

One South African teacher said, “We are asked to some workshops and they 
are a waste of time. This was finally a workshop where we got something. 
You Hawaii teachers lifted our spirits.” How were your workshops different 
from others they attended?

Mike: When we first arrived in South Africa, here we were-four white guys 
and our leader [Yunus Peer], an Indian, teaching all black teachers. I 
thought, “What kind of credibility were we going to have? They are probably 
thinking, here’s four white guys who are going to tell us what to do·” I’m 
talking about having had to confront a group of people who’ve been 
persecuted by the race that I’m a part of. But it turned out to be the 
reverse. We didn’t going into the classroom saying, “We have all the 
answers, that you’ve got to change.” Instead, we went in there and said, 
“Here’s how we teach at Punahou and we want to share with you a bit about 
our system. Please tell us about your system and how you teach.” We spent a 
lot of time talking about that. It was a great exchange.

Jim:  If you go a workshop, you can tell the difference between someone who 
puts on a workshop and someone who shares their teaching strategies and 
cares about how successfully they get their concepts across. We taught in a 
different way. We didn’t say, “this is the only way to do math.” We said, 
“this is what we do.” We loved them. We brought aloha to them.

What stood out as most significant in terms of the difference in learning 
conditions in South Africa –vs-the United States?

Mike: The South African teachers are motivated and talented but have no 
resources and no support and the number of students is overwhelming. Most 
of the schools we visited were rural schools where teachers teach 60-70 
kids per class, six or seven classes per day. One teacher said she teacher 
400-450 kids a day, grades 7-12! 
Many of the schools have no textbooks, electricity or running water. They 
may all have water catches. The one school that we saw had concrete floors 
but I would imagine that some did not. Some had individual desks or teacher 
desks – a long, rectangular desk that sat three students. They had 
chalkboards but the teachers brought their own chalk from classroom to 
classroom. 
Jim: On the day we arrived, Yunus‘ family took us to a school situated on a 
mountain top. There was no electricity or water. As we approached, we could 
hear singing. While we stood outside, the whole student body (about 800 
kids) sang for us. It was the most incredible thing I’ve heard. Then a 
dapperly dressed teacher (or perhaps the headmaster) came up to us and 
begged. “Is there anything you can give us? We need paper, pencils and 
pens”  I will never forget that.

Were you surprised to find anything that was the same?

JimThat teachers have the same concerns that we have with our learners, 
such as dealing with unmotivated kids. At Punahou we can at least call 
their parents, who usually are on the kids in no time. They don’t have that 
in South Africa. The parents are either not around and the students are 
raised by big brother or sister or Grandma or Grandpa. Mom and Dad might be 
living in Durban working to make money.

Mike: Other similar concerns included how to get kids to memorize formulas, 
do their homework, stop getting things mixed up. In my teaching, I try to 
come up with tricks to help kids remember things, like the slope of the 
horizontal line is zero and not undefined. My tricks are simple.

Did you teach students as well?

Jim: All together, we worked with 130 students. In the first group outside 
of South Johannesburg, the kids were all black. In Port Shepstone they were 
mixed: black and whites. 
The whites had gone to better schools.

Mike: We taught some Indian students too.  Indians went to an township 
school that was pretty good, comparable to almost any public school in Hawaii.

Were these teachers South African familiar with all of these math concepts 
and able to follow your lectures?

Jim:  They did; it was amazing. At Punahou, I teach calculus only. Someone 
who teaches geometry at our school does not teach series of sequences or 
calculus. But the South African teachers teach every subject. They 
obviously had to learn a lot on their own. 
Mike:  I think they help each other too. Within the school there’s a strong 
support system, assuming you have teachers who are motivated. For example, 
there were two female teachers in Port Shepstone who were constantly 
talking and learning from each other. As teachers, they must feel that they 
are different in their community because of their education.

Was there any one thing about Punahou’s system that especially impressed 
the South African teachers?

Mike: That we specialize in teaching one topic fascinated them. One African 
teacher questioned, “why can’t we use your system; why couldn’t they break 
it up in areas of strengths?” The South African teachers randomly choose 
their topics from their outdated books-texts from the 1950s?? with no 
pictures or practical application. The books are not user friendly, they 
are theorems and rules with no explanation. There’s no sense that the 
learner needs to be motivated or needs to have some continuity. There was 
no sequence that made sense to us- today geometry, tomorrow calculus, the 
next
 day trig.  It is an old British system that was brought in and has 
survived Apartheid.

How do you think that you helped to change the level of math education in 
South Africa?

Jim: I think when I left there the teachers were a lot more motivated. They 
got together amongst themselves and had good conversations. They learned 
math from us; we learned from them.

Mike: I made them think about the question,” Are you the sage 
on the stage or the guide on the side?” I tried to be a little more facilitative and 
they responded to that in thought and action.

How does your experience in South Africa add to what you already bring to 
your class?

Mike: My students may not like it, but I’m going to include some of those 
problems given in the South African matriculation exam on my tests!  The 
log and exponential function problems on the exam are taken from their 
textbooks and are more difficult than those in our system.

Jim: We stayed in Roshnee, which was an Indian township in Gauteng. The 
mosque was right around the corner. We heard a call to worship every 
morning and evening. I’ve come to better understand Islam and Indian 
culture in general. I feel even more comfortable relating to people, 
including my students, who belong to those cultures. 
Before 1994, South Africa has struggled with apartheid for over 350 years.

What do you believe you did, during your short visit, to help lessen the 
rift in the country?

Jim and Mike: We gave them the impression that whites don’t have to be 
domineering and condescending. We worked together harmoniously. There’s so 
much work that needs to be done; it will take two generations at least to 
get the economy on its feet. Education is critical to making this happen. 
We helped just a handful of teachers. We will need at least ten of these 
workshops every year for the next 20 years to make a serious impact. But 
you’ve got to start somewhere.

If you could share your most powerful memory of your South Africa 
experience, what would it be?

Jim and Mike : The most powerful moment was when the faculty sang 
Shosholoza. We were at the “aloha ceremony” that took place at the City 
Hall. The mayor and other dignitaries were there. Each participant received 
a certificate with a Punahou logo stating that he or she had successfully 
completed the math workshops. For many of the black teachers  it was the 
first time they had stepped foot in the Hall-and been hugged or 
congratulated by a white person. At one point, one of the teachers came 
down and took the microphone to say something. Suddenly from the back of 
room came a loud, deep voice singing in the Zulu language. The entire crowd 
of teachers responded loudly in chorus. This went on throughout the song. 
The song was Sosholoza, a black working man’s song. It was incredibly 
moving, a “chicken skin” experience.

What does this experience mean to you a  lifelong learner?

Jim : I learned a lot about the African culture and an incredible amount 
about the Muslim culture.  I learned that many of the teaching problems are 
universal. I also found that appearances can be deceiving. We’re all one 
family. We think of South Africa on the other side of the world. Physically 
it is, but people are just as nice as the guy next door. My experience is 
difficult to describe. I left a part of my heart there. I have a certain 
love of the country that I didn’t have before.

Is there anything else that you would like to add?

Jim: South Africa is a brand new democracy. The people have been yearning 
for contact with the outside world for centuries. We created a wonderful 
partnership with these people. But we couldn’t have done it without the 
support of Punahou President Jim Scott and administrators like Diane 
Anderson.  I am deeply grateful to them and to the Peer family for this 
experience.

Mike: Likewise, my thanks to Punahou, Dr. Scott, Diane, Yunus and his 
family, and all who made the trip possible. It is one of the most 
gratifying things I’ve done in all my years of teaching. To go back with Yunus 
to help out people in his homeland made us all proud. We wish we could have 
done more.